Interesting in this context is completely divorced from morally good/bad. Could be any group from any area at any time in history. I’ll start with a few, followers of the cult of pythagoras, contemporary black Hebrew Israelites, antiracist skinheads and the Amish (neo-luddites in general). Don’t be racist or a prick to other people discussing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jäger_Movement was a Finnish political movement whose aim was to liberate the Grand Duchy of Finland from the Russian Empire. It grew into a trained military battalion and formed a core of the White army in the Finnish Civil War.
One of the biggest reasons why Finland has been an independent country for 109 years.
The Diggers’ beliefs were informed by Winstanley’s writings which envisioned an ecological interrelationship between humans and nature, acknowledging the inherent connections between people and their surroundings; Winstanley declared that “true freedom lies where a man receives his nourishment and preservation, and that is in the use of the earth”.[7] With this the Diggers sought to establish a communistic utopia.[8]
The True Levellers advocated for an early form of public health insurance and communal ownership in opposition to individual ownership.
bro HELL YEAH
Also the Levellers! Very cool group of people. Can’t write about it now bc dying phone but look them up!
The political faction not the band although the band is great too
Subcultures among subcultures have existed for as long as humans in their infinite creativity existed.
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Babyfurs and Diaper Lover Furries-They focus on regression. And they really love diapers.
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Densha Otaku - They love photographing trains. They also get extremely violent when you ruin their shot of trains.
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Cyberdeck Builders- They build retro computers with 80s SciFi aesthetic and take things too far… Using or even building hardware to mimic timigs exactly like they behaved in 70s.
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Grandmacore - People obsessed with grandma aesthetics. Very. Very. Obsessed.
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Swedish Raggare - American 1950s greaser culture filtered through rural Sweden and dialled to 11.
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Sapeurs - Rural Kinshasa men spend 1000s of dollars, sometimes sacrificing rent and food, to buy high end designer shit from Europe. They walk through dirt roads dressed like 19th century French dandies.
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Otherkin & Therians - They think they aren’t humans or at least partially non humans.
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Birds aren’t real- They think birds aren’t real. And that they are all robots, drones sent by CIA or other secretive gangs.
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Chronological Revisionists - Popularised by a German historian named Heribert Illig, followers of the Phantom Time Hypothesis believe that the Early Middle Ages (specifically 614–911 AD) never actually happened. They claim that Holy Roman Emperor Otto III and Pope Sylvester II completely fabricated three centuries of history, including the entire existence of Emperor Charlemagne, just so Otto could rule during the monumental year 1000 AD. According to them, we are actually living in the early 1700s.
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The Tartaria - They believe that a technologically advanced, global utopian empire called Tartaria existed until the late 1800s. This empire supposedly used the domes and spires on old buildings (like world’s fair pavilions or old European castles) to pull free, wireless electromagnetic energy straight from the ether. They believe a massive, worldwide “Mud Flood” wiped them out, and modern history was rewritten to hide the existence of free energy.
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Deros Believers - Shaver claimed that humanity used to share Earth with an ancient, advanced race. When the sun started emitting toxic radiation, the advanced race fled the planet, leaving behind their underground cities. According to Shaver, these caves are now inhabited by Deros (Detrimental Robots)—degenerate, sadistic humanoids who use the abandoned ancient “ray technology” to project voices into the minds of surface-dwellers, cause freak accidents, and steal our thoughts.
There are a few more… But I’m too bored to type them here.
Birds aren’t real is another joke that people starting taking seriously like flat Earth.
I remember when both were joke subreddits. Then it turns out that if you have enough people pretending ridiculous shit some of them will take it seriously.
The KKK has a similar origin story.
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The Luddites were a labour movement with really admirable goals. They were only anti technology because it was being used to screw over textile workers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite
They weren’t even really anti technology - breaking the tech was the means available to them that worked. Protesting and petitioning didn’t get them anywhere, so they decided on direct action to make it hurt the capitalists in the only place they care about. That meant smashing looms and carders and everything else, because those were incredibly expensive.
That meant smashing looms and carders and everything else, because those were incredibly expensive.
Like data centers and ram are
Oh that’s interesting! I had a different internal definition of the term. Thanks for sharing!
Here’s an excellent recent book on the topic. https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/brian-merchant/blood-in-the-machine/9780316487740/
Margaret Killjoy did a great couple of episodes on them as well
antiracist skinheads
I’ve read about these guys. Their take on it is that the skins started as a working class solidarity movement (the short hair is for safety while working on factory machinery) that got corrupted by nationalism and they have more in common with immigrant workers than with their own country’s capitalists.
Non-racist skinheads pre-date the racist ones.
Ska is a Jamacain music style that white working class British youth got into due to working and living alongside Jamaican immigrants, leading to mixing with punk to create 2 Tone.
The racists started to co-opt and taint the movement later on.
I am a bald white guy, I have this patch on both of my battle vests.
And fuck white power skinheads, and fuck nazi punks.
Nazi punks FUCK OFF!
I learned about them after using “skinhead” in a derogatory way to a music buff. That was the same conversation where I learned that ska is actually older than reggae, which is still wild to me.
Similar is just actual punk culture in general
I’ve looked into them too a while ago and the skinhead subculture is pretty interesting. I’m going off of memory but I’m pretty sure the subculture started in London in the 1960s. There were three big subcultures at the time in London, the posh upper class were “mods”, the lower class “rude boys” got their influences and style from Jamaican immigrants, and finally the “skinheads” were the middle class had their shaved heads and Doc Martens. The second wave of skinheads in the 70s and 80s in the UK and US were basically anti-punks. They were the punks who were mad about the commercialization of their culture and they shaved their mohawks, traded their battle jackets for flannels, and moved from punk music towards ska. And finally the third wave in the 80s and 90s were the racists who were getting tired of getting their teeth kicked in at punk shows. And since hating people for no reason doesn’t have a style or culture of its own, those shitbags (I would argue very successfully) stole the working class style of the skinheads
Juggalos are pretty out there. Huffing nitrous, and drinking shitty beer and root beer? And they are super proud of it. I’m pretty sure there’s meth involved. I don’t think they do much harm to anybody but themselves, and maybe anybody they influence into becoming a juggalo. But man, what a weird group of people.
I’ve known a handful of juggalos. I can’t claim that the ones I’ve met are necessarily representative of them as a whole.
But I will say that overall the ones I’ve met have been really solid people. Not the brightest bulbs out there, but also very aware of that fact.
I think the best way to think of them is they’re the weird kids you went to school with who weren’t smart enough to be nerds. They’re a pretty welcoming and friendly group as long as you give them some basic respect, and they really look out for each other. There have been two occasions where one has literally offered the shirt off his back.
Some of them definitely have some drug issues, but the ones I’ve met are mostly just regular stoners in clown makeup, most of them haven’t even been big drinkers.
Juggalos get a bad rap, but I think it’s mostly a handful of loud assholes making all the rest of them look bad, I’ve never had a bad interaction with one and I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
One of my former best mates is a juggalo, and let me tell you, if you e got a problem they’re absolutely the guys you want at your back. Every single one I’ve ever met has been a stand up sort.
I’d back this up entirely, I know none of them well, but I’ve met a bunch and none that I’ve met land outside your characterization.
In fact the awareness, like you said, of being both permanently “off the beaten path”, but not usefully so and basically involuntarily - that’s such a common thread, and yep I’ve seen those folks be super generous, too.
Idk I’m ready to start treating juggalos almost as a protected class of some kind lmao, juggalo hate seems to come exclusively in the “I’ve never really met one but they seem gross” variety.
Maybe a fun way to think about it - give me a choice between dinner with any random juggalo vs dinner with any random American voter, if I really think about it, rolling those dice, I’m picking the rando juggalo every time…
So I sorta see this with subcultures that get negative attention. Back when being gay was looked at as bad generally in society every gay man I met (so uncloseted) was generaly very nice and like you describe with juggalos. As it became more accepted more and more where willing to come out of the closet and now I would not say the typical gay man I meet (I say man because I have not met a whole lot of gay women) is just typical of anyone. Most nice enough, some jerks. I have seen that in furry interactions now a days. Generally nice if you accept them as they are.
Honestly that doesn’t seem that weird. People hanging out and having a good time together with the use of drugs?
Wall Street finance bros do the same thing and I find that way more problematic
I like Faygo red pop tho. I’m glad the brand hasn’t been dragged with the cult.
Nobody talks about or looks at Faygo without thinking of juggalos. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Fair enough. I meant that the Faygo company isn’t as deep in the ax-wielders as Timbs are in the rap community. They produce their full range still & sometimes make new flavors.
They’re still a good brand, is what I’m saying.
Space deniers.
They are a sub-set of flat earthers. Not all flat earthers are space deniers, but every space denier I’ve seen is a flat earther.
Some of the more prominent ones like Level Earth Observer spend innumerable hours picking apart International Space Station live footage as “fake”. Things like space rocket launches need to be picked apart to absurd degrees as well. Every camera glitch, every stutter, every little movement is hyper-analyzed and declared to be a fraud.
I find it all fascinating. Some of these deniers put forth their own lay theories, which are usually very Biblical in bent, but many of them like LEO will twist themselves into incoherent knots refusing to admit they have a viewpoint and that they are “just asking questions” despite pushing back in a very particular way to all the answers they get.
Some of them like “CC from New York, Westchester County” are just totally off the deep end, not even playing word games, just conspiratorially ranting without even internal consistency.
I’ve only ever interacted with a space denier directly once and it was as equally interesting as it was frustrating.
There’s a big flat earth/space denier overlap with other fringe ideas like young earth creationism which gets you into Kent Hovind territory. That’s interesting in its own way but also full of slime.
I once did some research on flat earthers for a project. I was trying to assemble the most consistent interpretation I could in order to play the devil’s advocate in a fun debate. It turns out that space denial is quite helpful at preserving coherent physics if you assume the Earth is flat. The Earth can be accelerating upwards to create gravity, which violates special relativity but that’s nbd at this scale. Other planets can also be flat, which makes things easy too. The sun can’t set, but there’s no way around that one.
In my experience, the most irrefutably evidence that the Earth is round is the simple stuff like astronomy. Simple things like the path the sun and stars take from two points on the globe basically ends all debate. Flat Earthers always have crackpot ideas for things you can’t easily observe yourself, but you can really catch them with proof they can see with their naked eyes.
Of course, the easiest simplest killshot on flat earth is the sun setting below the horizon. Flat earth and space deniers tend to say the sun is well, something that’s not a star, but more importantly that it stays in the sky and circles further away from a given location on earth until we can’t see it from a given location anymore while it stays overhead. To think that is to deny easily observed reality of it setting below the horizon. They just wordsalad about perspective until the conversation ends.
One aspect of flat earth/space denial that keeps me engaged is learning from the responses that educated people give to their questions. Details of space programs and astronomy that wouldn’t come up often except to answer flat earth/space denial.
I’ve always found puritanical groups quite interesting. They seem to evolve out of any subculture be it religious or not. Take the ‘straight edge’ culture, a group of hardcore punk kids who rebelled against the excesses of the punk underground and swear an oath against drinking, drugs and casual sex.
On the religious front you have groups like the shakers. An offshoot of the quakers whose utopian vision prohibited all sex. As a consequence the movement all but died out as they couldn’t reproduce to create new members!
I’ve changed my mind - I just remembered The ‘Zizians’ cult. They are absolutely the strangest group I’ve ever heard about.
Oh hey I just finished part 2 of the BtB episodes about them
EDIT: lol that’s part 1 you linked to, I assumed it was Strange Aeons
I think the Bruderhof people are the most authentic Christians in the modern world. They are communist (live in community without personal property) and are a cult of Christ.
The Weather Underground were a leftist militant group in the US who did a bunch of bombings and riots in the 1970: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground
There’s a decent documentary about them: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0343168/
when did they chill out and start serving public apis
Fun fact. Both started at the University of Michigan and the latter was named as an homage to the leftist group.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground_(weather_service)
I’m not typically in favor of bombing things. You know, like in general. That said, blowing up a statue, waiting for it to be rebuilt and then blowing it up again is pretty funny.
Then they blew it up a third time.
Yeah. Also AFAIK, they bombed a bunch of buildings, but only at times they knew no one would be in them, and never killed or injured anyone.
Rojava, an socialist autonomous region in northern Syria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rojava_Revolution
And the Zapatistas, another successful socialist insurgency in mexico: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Liberation
Rojava coverage by famed bagel chucking weirdo Robert Evans.
Very interesting.
Boyfriend took me to see The Seventh Seal over the weekend, and in that I learned that Flagellantism rose out of the Black Death. As in, they couldn’t psychologically handle the Black Death so much that they turned to whipping themselves to pray for the plague to end. They would travel through towns, performatively whip themselves, and scream at people to repent.
Think about how awful covid was, even for a lot of people who didn’t get seriously ill. Now imagine if we knew nothing about where it came from or how to prevent or heal it, and nobody, absolutely nobody could reliably give any insight.
Then it lasts for seven years, nearly halving the population, before coming back seven years after that. In a place where seven is a religiously significant number.
I would have gone fucking nuts too.
Yeah they’ve inspired some really cool fictional characters.
I found Urban eXperiment to be kind of an interesting group. They’re the folks who built a hidden cinema in the Paris Catacombs.
Oh wild
My dad was part of a masonic lodge later on in life and, what I got from meeting a couple of his colleagues and talking to him about it, it really wasn’t that interesting. It’s basically a social space for older men with some connections/money and a lot of rituals (which my dad described very giddily, lol, the superficial fool). Most likely influential in some way (as any group of uhh “funny” old men with reach can be) but kinda meh… it didn’t seem like he learned anything transcendental or important from his time there.
yeah it’s also my impression. i’ve never been with the freemasons but from my impression as an outsider, it’s a very outdated structure. not sure whether they still don’t allow women in. yeah, it’s basically a socializing circle for rich folks. lots of rituals, but no deeper spirituality as far as i can tell. you can probably learn more from 6 months at a 3-person philosophy circle than from a decade at the freemasons.
The free masons originally grew as a support and trust network.
It used to be that traveling was FAR less common. Consequently, travellers were seen as suspect. One of the major exceptions was masons. They would have to relocate to big projects e.g. a castle. They would stay long enough that the lack of trust was a problem, but not long enough to properly overcome it.
End result, they started vouching for each other. A local groups would vouch for the newcomers. They would introduce them and stop them getting ripped off.
Furthermore, stonemasonry was a dangerous trade. It was easy for a mason to be killed far from home. They clubbed together to support the families of members, as well as the disabled.
Wrap this up in Christianity based traditions and you have the masonic free masons. An early cooperative support and social networking group.
No idea what your dad’s like, but I reckon we in the secular west are write off rituals way too easily. They can have lots of value - silly fun not least of all, but also community building and meaning-making.
Uh, it’s very interesting if you’re into allegorical reinterpretations of universal deism and some esoteric rituals. But, yeah, the dinners are pretty much the highlight.
Yeah lots of meh in that kind of thing in my experience.
Spiritualists conducting scam stances in 1850s Boston, the Fox sisters. Their scam was done by “knocking noises” that were generated by the sisters cracking joints or even just tapping on the table or floor.
The circles they traveled in included Quakers, suffragettes, high society, and financiers. (Some of their early seances centered on stock market predictions, and made them a good deal of money.)
I just love that intersection of societies coming together to be scammed by some pretty bright women, in a really interesting time in our national history. Strict religious beliefs in a marriage with new age free thought.
I have kind of wanted to write a book centered on that time but never found a good hook.
My grandmother was an eventual product of that generation in Boston. Very equal rights for women while in a weird religious sect, Christian Science, founded by feminist Mary Baker Eddy.
Knocking with your feet to pretend there is a ghost is still an alive and well practice. I don’t have exact instances on hand but John Wolfe on YouTube has covered a lot of ghost hunting content and some people in there do it.
Today there are more technological ways to create ghostly knocking using various devices, but if the “ghost hunter”/“medium” is taken to a location they can’t prep beforehand, some of them still do basic knocking tricks.
I don’t remember the specifics since it’s been a while, but I think these are the John Wolfe videos that cover fake knocking
monkey.jpeg
Knights Templar, one of the oldest secret societies that may or may not still exist.
They most definitely still exist today. I studied in a private Jesuit run school. We were taught survival skills in the cubs & scouts. Then we were taught defensive combat skills.
You could also enroll in fencing & marital arts, but I had other things on my mind at the time.
Very historically interesting group.
