• starik@lemmy.zip
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    4 days ago

    If you vote for Democrats in general elections, they’re not talking about you. There are a lot of dumbasses on the left who don’t vote, or throw their votes away on hopeless third parties.

    • bobdylans49thbeard@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Except when we criticize the shit the DNC pulls you all show up and say, “oh, you just don’t want people to vote?!?!”

      • starik@lemmy.zip
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        3 days ago

        In this post, one of you replied to me:

        I don’t vote. Good people don’t vote.

        So the concern isn’t unfounded.

        • bobdylans49thbeard@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          One of me? I’m pretty sure I’m the only one of me. And in response to your comment that I replied to you, you specifically said this wasn’t about those of us who do vote, so that comment has nothing to do with me at all.

          Try again, maybe put on your thinking cap.

          • starik@lemmy.zip
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            3 days ago

            Did I lump you in with a group to which you do not belong? Heaven forfend!

            Who is the “we” you are referring to here?

            Except when we criticize the shit the DNC pulls you all show up and say, “oh, you just don’t want people to vote?!?!”

            And who are the “you all”? iM pReTTy ShUr Im ThE OnLy OnE of MEEE!

            • bobdylans49thbeard@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              So again, you said “if you vote, I’m not taking about you.” I said, “except when we criticize democrats you tell us we don’t want people to vote.” Then you lumped me in with people who don’t vote.

              Is thinking really this hard for you? The “we” I’m referring to are the ones of us who vote and also are fed up with the way the DNC runs the party. This is just…not confusing. How are you this perplexed? Do you need a nap? You seem to be getting really emotional.

    • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      If you vote for Democrats in general elections, they’re not talking about you.

      Tell me you’ve never criticized the centrist wing of the party without saying you’ve never criticized the centrist wing of the party.

      • starik@lemmy.zip
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        4 days ago

        You need to consciously work on eliminating these Reddit speech patterns from your vocabulary. It’s like nails on a chalkboard.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          4 days ago

          Tone policing is certainly one way to indicate that you cannot address what I said. Concession accepted. You’ve never criticized the genocide wing, so you’ve never encountered the behavior of the genocide wing toward its critics.

          The genocide wing blames everyone to the left of netanyahu for his pet’s loss, regardless of how they voted.

    • DraconicSun@piefed.social
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      4 days ago

      Those people are not numerous enough to matter. They’re mostly internet MLs who spend 16 hours a day yapping on social media so they look like the common consensus.

      • starik@lemmy.zip
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        4 days ago

        2016 Election: Stein Votes vs. Trump Margin

        • Michigan: Trump won by 10,704 votes. Stein received 51,463 votes.
        • Wisconsin: Trump won by 22,748 votes. Stein received 31,006 votes.
        • Pennsylvania: Trump won by 46,765 votes. Stein received 49,678 votes.
        • ViceroTempus@lemmy.world
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          4 days ago

          Ahh yes blame the people who believe in democracy enough to vote their conscience, the smallest percentage of people. And not the cheaters.

          Definitely not the bomb threats, the thrown out voter rolls, the mail-in ballots in ditches, the constant redistricting. It’s the tiniest percentage of people who have all the power.

          Nevermind the Michigan Data, or the Pennsylvania Data. Or the 30%-40% that sit the fuck out every national election. No it’s that tiny percent.

          For the record I voted Harris because I do believe in harm reduction over absolutism, but it’s fucking stupid to blame the third party voters that happen to actually believe in democracy and that you should vote for who you want, not who can win.

          Frankly if we as a nation would had voted for a third party or independent candidate sooner, it’s quite possible the either Major Party would have died like the Whigs when the Republican Party came onto the scene.

          Just think about it critically instead of continuing that stupid ass dogma that got us here in the first place.

          • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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            4 days ago

            Stein was a spoiler and a Russian asset, if voting your conscious meant voting for her your conscious is fuckin stupid.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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              4 days ago

              You can see how refusing to distance herself from genocide left an opening that spoiler candidates could exploit, can’t you?

              And since you and a bunch of other dopey centrists are gonna imagine that this is somehow an admission of a vote for stein if I don’t say this: I voted for harris.

              • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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                4 days ago

                The people shouting the loudest about Gaza historically don’t fucking vote, ever. So why would anyone assume catering to them would amount to anything when they already don’t vote? It’s not complicated and her position on Palestine likely didn’t have significant effect on the outcome because anyone that actually votes knew well the republicans would embolden netanyahu. And good that you voted for Harris, now please stop trying to convince people not to vote because that gets republicans elected and republicans are worse because they’re unified and they’re all as bad as the worst Dems. It’s not fucking complicated. Like this is literally the only option that isn’t full on violent revolution, societal collapse, or the christofascist technofeudalist dystopia the republicans are ushering in.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                  4 days ago

                  The people shouting the loudest about Gaza historically don’t fucking vote, ever.

                  I shout pretty loud about the genocide wing’s greatest accomplishment, and I vote.

            • ViceroTempus@lemmy.world
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              4 days ago

              I don’t disagree which is why I’ve never voted Stein. The Green Party has never been a serious third party to me, but seems to get brought up as a strawman at every turn when a blueberry wants to avoid their cognitive dissonance.

          • starik@lemmy.zip
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            4 days ago

            National elections are so close these days, any of these things could be the but-for difference maker in any given election. Certainly the large number of non-voters you mention (I’m note sure if any of those election fraud claims are consequential).

            But, in this thread, we are responding to one particular group that consistently helps Republicans win, because they’re the ones who posted it, and they’re here in the comments to be argued with!

            • ViceroTempus@lemmy.world
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              4 days ago

              Except it’s never been their fault. Even in the “best” years third party voters make up less than 5% of the electorate. It’s a lie of statistics to not mention the non-voters. You’re telling me that the third party voters are more at fault than politician whose job is to get elected being unable to steal that percentage from the non voters?

              No what does happen instead? What did The Democratic Party do not long before the election? Did they appeal to the Non-Voters? Or did they appeal to “moderate” Republicans? Did they go for the larger percentage, or one that was no doubt slim and taken for?

              Like doesn’t it seem silly to blame 5 when 30 is such a larger number? Isn’t it dumb to blame people treating democracy like democracy instead of the politicians that won’t meet the electorate where it matters?

              • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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                4 days ago

                Third party voters and non voters both get republicans elected so I don’t concern myself with a distinction. They’re both in the group of people that clearly don’t understand how the government works, or was supposed to before they let republicans ratfuck it.

                • ViceroTempus@lemmy.world
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                  4 days ago

                  Yeah, why bother with understanding when you can just place blame. Then you’ll bitch about how the Democratic Party lost again because they can’t meet the electorate where they’re at.

                  Revel in your ignorance and stupidity I guess. More worried about placing blame than fixing things like a good little blueberry.

              • starik@lemmy.zip
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                4 days ago

                Blame them all, since they’re all to blame. I’ve already shown how less than 5% is more than enough to give us a decade of Trumpism.

                A lot of these “both sides” leftists fall into the 30% non-voter category, rather than the third party voter category, by the way.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                  4 days ago

                  All you’re saying is that you’re ignoring the will of voters you need because you accept trump over listening to people who don’t like genocide as much as you do.

                • ViceroTempus@lemmy.world
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                  4 days ago

                  No, what you showed was a lie of statistics. It’s not reality. It’s context less without the Non-voter numbers.

                  And even if they do, I wonder how many of those non-voters would be third party voters if they hadn’t been told their whole life their choices don’t matter unless they vote for the Evil Candidate or the Rolling Over Candidate?

                  Once again why isn’t a politicians fault for not meeting the electorate where they’re at? Like Non voters are the clear winner every election purely on the numbers. Have you ever asked yourself why? Ever asked them?

                  • starik@lemmy.zip
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                    4 days ago

                    I mean, Harris apparently met 75 million voters where they were at. HaVe U eVeR sToPPeD to ask UrSeLF Y??

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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              4 days ago

              National elections are so close these days, any of these things could be the but-for difference maker in any given election.

              The party should start behaving accordingly, then. Instead they alienate their base by sprinting to the right in an idiotic attempt to get republican votes. Republicans hate you. They are not going to vote for you.

          • starik@lemmy.zip
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            4 days ago

            They don’t all have to be. Look closely again at the numbers and you’ll notice some are larger than others. Think of the implications of that.

          • starik@lemmy.zip
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            4 days ago

            You do it, lazy.

            I’ve made my point about you people supposedly not being numerous enough to matter. A few hundred thousand votes is easily enough to matter if the election is close enough. And you never know how close an election will be before it happens.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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              4 days ago

              I’ve made my point about you people supposedly not being numerous enough to matter. A few hundred thousand votes is easily enough to matter if the election is close enough. And you never know how close an election will be before it happens.

              So maybe the party should start treating us as though we’re people with agency whose votes they need.

              • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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                4 days ago

                Maybe you should be informed and invested enough in your own well being not to shoot us all collectively in the foot over misplaced principles.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                  4 days ago

                  I voted for harris. I wasn’t expecting second worst to be good enough to win, and I shouldn’t have expected the genocide wing to not blame everyone to the left of netanyahu, regardless of how they voted. It’s not the votes you have a problem with. You hate the idea of anyone ever being allowed to utter an unkind word about the perpetrators of genocide under any circumstances.

                  • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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                    4 days ago

                    You’re out here actively trying to convince people not to vote. You’re either a republican or an accelerationist because your rhetoric is accelerationist rhetoric that elects republicans. Short of a violent revolution in which you and I and everything you love dies or total societal collapse in which you and I and everything you love dies violently the only actual option is the democratic party, by primarying incumbents with progressives at every level in every area. So either we get on with the full tilt collapse of the US or we start dragging the democratic party left. What you’re doing here gets republicans elected.