Starting September 30th, there’s going to be a tsunami of Android users looking for an alternative system fleeing this developer verification malware.
In your opinion, are things like post market OS and the rest of the Linux phone ecosystem ready to take on these new users?
IMO no, but I also think there will be a growth spurt in developers interested in getting something done in the near future.
Nick at The Linux Experiment posted a video today on Ubuntu Touch 30 day trial he did. It’s come a really long way and is in the “usable” category now.
Yes they are, but it really depends on which one you get.
I have a fairphone 6 with pmOS on my desk here right now.
And it is ready to be a daily driver, and i will soon fully switch over to it.
My Jolla phone with SailfishOs should be coming at the end of September, can’t wait!
There isn’t a daily driver with enough stock available that runs all android apps with Google Play services.
I have not used Google Play services on my Android phone since 2019, so I’m perfectly used to not having those.
That’s fine but as an influx it has to be pre-installed and be exactly the same as Android.
Why is google play services an absolute necessity?
There are apps people potentially use that require it.
i mean sure there might be apps that people potentially use that require it, but do those apps have no alternatives and are absolutely necessary?
I’m sure they do, an example would be banking online instead of an app. But if the majority of users were willing to have any amount of friction from their current habits the world wouldn’t be in it’s current predicament.
Fair enough
It seems really phone-dependent, so it might strain the used market and raise prices of Google Pixels and OnePlus phones.
I think a lot of newcomers will struggle with getting microG running. TBH I still haven’t figured it out and just kind of avoid apps requiring Play Services lol.
And, as always, Europe will fare better than the U.S.
At this point, what I’m thinking about is not using my phone as more than a phone+hotspot. Anything I want to run will be on a second device with me, which would be for everything else.
What that second device is… currently up for debate. I was going to build a clamshell style palmtop, but honestly I just don’t have the time. Maybe I’ll get a PMOS friendly tablet?
Hmm I wonder if any of the open handhelds have SIM connectivity
Seems like its mostly the android ones… if I could find like a cheap version of the mnt pocket reform, that would be great.
As of right now, I think mobile Linux still needs some more time before it’s ready for mass adoption. For the developers and tinkerers, it’s a fun project and, depending on your needs, it can be usable as a daily driver as your main or side phone, but it’s still a little unstable with many missing conveniences compared to the duopoly. App support is already good enough in my opinion, especially with Waydroid being a thing. As for device support, I think if you do want to try mobile Linux, get a well-supported device to start, like a used OnePlus 6 or Pixel 3a series, and just play around with it. I found it very fun, and there are lots of cool things you can do with mobile Linux too! I particularly enjoyed the lack of microtransactions in all the games…(Animatch, Ultimate Tic Tac Toe, Pentobi, a few desktop games are playable with mouse and keyboard)
A good alternative right now is to recommend a degoogled Android ROM for people who want to keep the openness of Android but don’t want to go all in to Linux phones just yet. iodeOS, GrapheneOS, e/OS, and now CalyxOS (they’re back!) are all great options that won’t have the same restrictions as stock Android. Fairphones, Pixels, etc. are all great devices to be recommended for this purpose.
While I’m also asking for myself, I’m currently running Lineage OS with no Google apps or services, but eventually I think I’ll be forced off of an Android-based system entirely.
Besides installing malware on devices with Google Play services, Google is also doing things like making AOSP less frequent updates and stuff like that too. Eventually, I’m figuring I’m just going to have to leave and go to a Linux phone entirely, whether I want to or not.
For me personally, the things that I absolutely need to work are the touchscreen, calling, texting, cellular data, microphone, speaker, bluetooth, and Wi-Fi.
Once you do overtime, Waydroid is available to run Lineageos on your Linux Phone
From my testing with pmOS and a used OnePlus 6, one of the best supported devices + the potent SD845 chipset: touchscreen, cellular data, microphone, speaker, bluetooth, and Wi-Fi all work. I have not tested calling or texting, as I mainly focused on using its cameras, listening to music, and playing fun (awesome native Linux) games, and from reading the wiki, it will kind of work with some weird quirks (audio dropping out, that sort of thing). Pretty interesting though.
I enjoyed playing around with the cameras a lot, it was kind of a case where they were so bad they became good again, looking almost film-like with lots of grain and blooming
It depends, are you someone that thinks 16-year-old Wayland is ready? Or Linux is ready for desktop? How much broken-ness and insecurity is acceptable?
I will not lay down the oil to start the firery debate between X11 and Wayland, but I run a Wayland desktop with no issues. Mint works well for a lot of people while being X11 based.
Desktop Linux is definitely ready for the masses, most of the big distros (Mint, Fedora, etc.) and desktop environments (GNOME, Plasma, Cinnamon, etc.) are very usable on most hardware and are much more stable than it was many years ago. I don’t run into many large issues, and this is with the rolling release EndeavourOS (Arch-based). When I was using Mint for a bit, I had no issues at all!
For now, mobile Linux still needs to grow more before mass adoption, but it’s a fun project if you’re a developer and want something new and interesting!
I run a Wayland desktop with no issues
Useless anecdote that ignores all the factual issues still present in Wayland.
Mint works well for a lot of people
Mint forums and discussions say it doesn’t for many more.
are very usable on most hardware
I don’t see how fetch, htop, and screenshot make a computer ‘useable’. Useable for reddit karma farming?
Useless anecdote that ignores all the factual issues still present in Wayland.
Again, I don’t want to provoke a fire. Yes, some work needs to be done for certain features (I believe progress has been made on multi-monitor/desktop stuff), but it’s stable enough for both GNOME and Plasma to fully switch to it, and Cinnamon is working hard to implement it too.
Both X11 and Wayland have their place. I don’t think it’s helpful to start burning bridges
Mint forums and discussions say it doesn’t for many more.
Typically, forums are for people to discuss troubles that people have had to find help, minor or not, not for boasting how well your system runs usually. In my own experience and that of many people I know, Mint is a very smooth experience that is easy to pick up.
I don’t see how fetch, htop, and screenshot make a computer ‘useable’. Useable for reddit karma farming?
Now I think you’re trolling. I never mentioned any of those, and I don’t currently use Reddit either (or really ever, I’m not the social media type. I mostly use Lemmy to seek and offer help in various topics of my interest). I daily drive EndeavourOS and I can do web browsing, document editing programming, CAD, photo editing, video editing, and gaming (both PC titles and emulation run excellently!)
Problems are punished on Reddit, stupid ‘I just switched to Mint’ posts rewarded.
You MUST be aware that document editing, CAD, photo editing, video editing, and gaming suck on FOSS. -It’s an objective truth. Your propaganda has been debunked so many times.
You MUST be aware that document editing, CAD, photo editing, video editing, and gaming suck on FOSS
Well, turns out it doesn’t. LibreOffice is really nice to use and automatically works with my theme which is always nice. You also have OnlyOffice if you want something with a different UI , though, it is Russian owned and has weird licensing issues going on.
Photo editing is also really easy, there’s lots of good stuff out there. Rawtherapee is great for processing photos from my camera, but Inkscape is AMAZING for vector work (what I usually deal with)
Video editing with Kdenlive is very smooth, I don’t do too much if it but if you need additional functionality you can also use Davinci Resolve.
Games on Linux runs fine and dandy, Hades, Hollow Knight, Hearts of Iron IV, Minecraft (p.s. the cross-platform Prism Launcher is awesome for managing versions, shaders, and mods!), and Balatro (all of which I installed as Windows games) run really well (Proton/Wine is awesome!), and there’s also a few neat native Linux games that are fun, quite basic, nothing graphically intensive, like 2048 and puzzles. Xonotic is an exception though, but it’s pretty old now. STK is getting a new release soon and I’m excited for that!
As for emulation, Retroarch and all the cores run fine, no weird compatabilities here! I can run my favourite GC, PS2, GBA, DS, etc. super easily!
I see you’re liar and am leaving the discussion.
Wait until you go onto the microsoft help forums.
Yeah, the Linux evangelists and their fake issues are rampant there huh?
Not even remotely, even if Mobile Linux was good and viable the grand majority of disgruntled Android users aren’t switching. Thats if it was good and viable which it isnt even remotely. Hardware support is poor, the software experience is extremely bad (yes I have actually used postmarketos), and overall its just not something that people are gonna want to use.
On September 30th when people look for alternatives they will find nothing and give up, if there was a viable alternative google wouldn’t be doing this
E/os is fine. I just bank on a laptop since I deleted MicroG. Nobody has to do that though.
Bought an Oneplus 6 for testing, but didn’tmake it my daily driver. PMOS is there software-wise, but the drivers (calling, camera) aren’t there yet. Sailfish works (because it uses that Halium thing), but I found the software unintuitive and the lack of a proper web browser being available without the use of the android sandbox scared me away.
However I’ve been noticing that one legend who recently regularily updates on the fediverse how he tries to get feature completeness for the Fairphone 6 in PMOS, so maaybe we’re up to someyhing there?
I can’t wait for the legend’s next post 🥹
The next one is going to be an absolute banger, coming soon!
all hail Mighty Cat.
Isn’t the Fairphone only sold in Europe? I would like to consider getting one, but I live in the US, and as far as I’m aware, they aren’t sold here
They are sold as murena phones and are shipped with e/os.
You can get a Fairphone two ways in the US:
Been trialing Ubuntu Touch and looks great, solid moves forward. The UI flow is not my fav, but ok with compromises. But yes, in a world where we will need the browser to replace our apps, that is such a centerpiece. As well I wish to be able to use a system wide custom DNS like control D or nextdns for safety. Hopes for all these to keep on getting better
I looked into this a bit when my partner wanted a new phone. It looked like Linux phones weren’t quite ready for adoption by the masses and they were expensive compared to other Android based solutions
I didn’t find the expense to be the big issue so much as I don’t see a new-ish device that’s capable.
Postmarket OS, for example, appears to work the absolute best on the Google Pixel 3 and the OnePlus 6, and both of those are well past their production dates and are hard to get hold of.
I think they ought to put up a list somewhere of the newest devices they support with at least decent support such as your standard calling, texting, media, etc.
I think they ought to put up a list somewhere of the newest devices they support with at least decent support such as your standard calling, texting, media, etc.
pmOS does have a list of supported devices, and for the list labeled “main” support, it’s empty, as they do not deem any if their currently supported devices (in the “community” or “testing” sections) to be usable/stable enough for daily use for the average person. Of the supported devices, it’s clearly labeled what does and doesn’t work for each device
Other spins like Mobian and Ubuntu Touch have similar pages too!
Note that the list is not to date though. (I get a bootloop on a device that should mostly work)
If you do find any issues with the wiki, make sure to report it on the Matrix server! When I had an issue with an instruction on the wiki, it turned out it was a workaround that was never supposed to be done by normal people (installing edge kernel on stable installation), and the wiki was edited nearly instantly! Really cool actually…
Thanks
It makes a lot more sense to put an OS on an existing phone. His phone is what needed replacing so I was looking for devices that ran Linux out of the box. He mostly wanted to avoid bloatware, telemetry and bullshit.
Fairphone 2-6 and Shiftphone 6 & 8 have relatively good pmos support for newer phones.
According to this recent post it seems one brave developer just made the microphone work with PMOS on FP6 and it does not yet work for calls. It looks quite far from being ready for the average user. https://ani.social/post/33936031
I factored in Mighty Cat’s recent driver upgrades into my calculations.
It seems on average the 6 Fairphone models are 64% functional while the Fairphone 6 is 73% the way there. Quite impressive for a year old phone.
I don’t know if I can get either a shift or fairphone here in the U.S.
You can order a fairphone through Murena
Okay, thanks!
Maaaybe SailfishOS? Although it only works on Jolla Phone and Sony Xperia phones…
and the new commodore flip phone!
Can you even get the Jolla phone in the US?
I’m it sure if it’s possible to get a Jolla phone in the US
It is possible to get a Sony Xperia 10 with SailfishOS pre-installed in the US though: https://buy.jolla-devices.com/product/sony-xperia-10-iii-sailfish-os/
I bought one and have kinda messed with it a little. I haven’t had time to fully switch over yet though.
Initial impressions are:
- it may be a viable route
- phone calls and SMS work on Mint Mobile
- basic Android apps work (Whatsapp, Signal)
- hardware works?
I am a bit concerned because it sounds like Sailfish OS doesn’t have any kind of accessibility settings and I use a combination of magnification and screen reader.
I don’t think Post Market OS has a screen reader either, but I have seen the accessibility section of GNOME Mobile and PHOSH, and they at least appear to have the zoom capabilities.
edit: shit, you meant the J2, I replied as if you asked about SfOS. Well, I’m still leaving this comment. I’m sure someone talked about ordering the J2 to the US as well.
Yes.
https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-in-the-usa/5307/321
(There are other threads discussing SfOS working outside of Europe)
Sadly SFOS is largely (UI, core apps) proprietary.
You’re not wrong, but I wouldn’t say “largely”. It’s mostly the elements that guarantee them a niche in the market: their very good Android App Support, some of the UI, plus some carryover from the NOKIA days (but they have started opensourcing some of those apps).
The rest is a bog-standard Linux/systemd/wayland system with an rpm/libzypp based package manager.
Yeah, that’s true. It’s Linux, but it’s not FOSS.
Given the lack of viable options and the importance of having an alternative, I’m worried about maintaining the status quo because we don’t have a perfect solution. So I’m OK with SailfishOS being partly proprietary for now… and we should push them to open up more. Idk.
ubports and sailfish just works, but there’s no apps
there’s no apps
https://openrepos.net/
https://sailfishos-chum.github.io/
The official Jolla Store has no web ui, but somebody made a listing here (it’s pretty old and the store has only gotten larger since then).Also consider that you can use/install tons of common Linux CLI tools, and the road to achieve a particular goal doesn’t necessarily go through an “app”.
SailfishOS as main driver since at least 2020.
On several of the Sony Xperias.
I’m not looking back.
I know what people are going to criticize about it.
It’s a EU company, I have read all the small print and I trust them.
Does it have any kind of accessibility? I have seen the accessibility section of PHOSH and GNOME Mobile on post-market OS, and while they don’t seem to have a screen reader, they do seem to have the zoom capabilities for magnification, which is part of what I need.
I saw a YouTube video from 8 months ago where somebody was trying the Jolla C2 and specifically mentioned the lack of accessibility settings.
I do trust them, they’re great people, but I don’t like the proprietarieness of it :(
do banking apps (or apps that require some sort of attestation) work? That’s my blocker.
Yes.
https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/banking-apps-on-sailfish-os/
But I’m with OP here; I simply use my browser, I don’t even want to install my bank’s app (it’s listed as working well).
if the bank has the same functionalities on web. Spoiler alert, they don’t. Credit cards need to approve online transactions on the APP, not website. Bank website has pretty much only kyc info, no payments.
On the plus side there’s an app on that list that I could move to.
As far as banking apps go, I would do exactly what I’m doing now and use my bank from the web browser.
Unfortunately my country (sweden) has built the entire society around a 2FA-app created by the banks. When I need banking apps, it’s not to handle bank things, it’s to pay for a bus ticket, book an appointment at the dentist, sign contracts, log into my work computer, etc. It’s very difficult to function in society without this app.
Plenty Swedes use SfOS, this has been mentioned on the forums, and it is working.
It’s similar in Finland btw and does not even require an app (depending on your bank of course).
That’s why I use GrapheneOS
FuriOS and Ubuntu Touch are the closest options to daily-drive.
