I switched from Gmail to Proton, but now with everything coming out about Proton I’m switching from them too. I started using Posteo which I like but a lot of my accounts having to do with money and finance (including my bank) aren’t accepting the Posteo email. They have rejected it over and over and even locked me out stating that I was hacked.
Do you guys have any recommendations for email providers to use that also won’t send red flags to my more official accounts?
If it helps, I’m US-based.
Serious starting to wonder if all this vague, anti-Proton misinformation-posting isn’t just some Google-backed astroturfing campaign
It’s not a conspiracy, Proton is a shit company. But, by all means give them your money for security theatre.
You say that, but nobody ever really has any proof. It’s always just vague aspersions (like yours) or misinformation spread by non-technical people who don’t really understand how any of the technology involved works, so they make assumptions and upset themselves when Proton can’t deliver on their imaginary assumptions.
I can practically see the unwritten half of your comment now: “Might as well keep using Gmail. Just consume. Don’t think”
Proof of what? That they are a profit based company that engages in security theatre marketing to sell their service. This is self evident. I find Protards especially suspicious when they can’t accept this basic fact.
Every single email provider from Switzerland has to follow the law. Pretending their service has something over other services when they just follow the law is kind of ridiculous. This is marketing and it sucks.
Companies sell images and Proton, being a major corporation, is no different. People think throwing money is going to solve their problem and Proton is happy to stroke this feeling to make profit.
For me, I liken it to advertising your company is bonded. In California they have recognized that this is a deceptive marketing practice and made it illegal for businesses to do it. If Proton just advertised we follow swiss law like every email provider in this country it would be accurate. Instead they create security theatre to attract users.
A great example of this is their recent credit card scandal where it was revealed that they they store meta data on transactions needlessly. They claim privacy, but yet they store your private information on their servers. They don’t disclose this actively and it is a serious violation of privacy.
Proton’s answer is always the same lame garbage along the lines that anonymity is not privacy and then they try to explain how you can protect yourself. The truth is their service does not respect privacy in some regards. You point out their technology is pretty solid. Sure, but that is not my issue with them.
My issue is they pretend to be all about privacy, but then they store your personal information and it is YOUR fault. Like the end user is supposed to magically know they do this and somehow protect themselves when the problem is with Proton itself.
Proof of what?
engages in security theatre marketing to sell their service.
Proof of that.
This is self evident
It is not.
Every single email provider from Switzerland has to follow the law. Pretending their service has something over other services when they just follow the law is kind of ridiculous.
Good thing they don’t pretend anything like this and are very up front about following the law. In fact following the law is a large part of the marketing, which is just that Swiss law is less invasive than other countries, which it is.
If Proton just advertised we follow swiss law like every email provider in this country it would be accurate.
Which is exactly what they do. Where exactly is your problem again?
A great example of this is their recent credit card scandal where it was revealed that they they store meta data on transactions needlessly. They claim privacy, but yet they store your private information on their servers.
Of course they do? You’re literally paying them to? HELLO?
The truth is their service does not respect privacy in some regards.
See here’s your problem, you see the word “privacy” and attribute a bunch of promises to Proton that they haven’t made. They advertise a privacy friendly email service, and they do. You’ll get much more privacy using ProtonMail than something like Gmail or ICloud mail. You’re not going to achieve to 100% anonymity when using a protocol as old as email, on somebody else’s servers. That’s impossible and they never promised you that. You won’t find ANY email provider that will be as “Private” as you want them to be. You’re blaming Proton for not providing you with an imaginary product that doesn’t exist.
My issue is they pretend to be all about privacy, but then they store your personal information and it is YOUR fault.
It is your fault. Why is your ignorance anyone else’s fault? If you use Proton you will get far more privacy than using just about any other email hosting service, and on par with other privacy-centric email platforms. If digital privacy is this important to you, then devote SOME of your time to learning how to achieve what you want.
This is exactly what I’m talking about, you posting these vague aspersions with literally zero evidence backing it up. You’re literally the exact type of user I mentioned in my original comment. A non-technical end user pissed off because something you don’t understand doesn’t work in the way you imagined it in your head, because you don’t understand enough about email or privacy to form a cohesive opinion on the matter.
Like have it your way, just keep using Gmail and let them scan every line of every email in your inbox and feed it all to Gemini. Or switch to other of Proton’s peers and experience the same benefits and the same limitations you do with ProtonMail while deluding yourself into thinking you’re better off. But this rampant spreading of misinformation has got to stop eventually.
Omg you do act like a Protard. I don’t need to provide evidence that Proton sells its service off the concept of privacy, something every company operating in their nation does by law. As I alluded to, you can’t even accept basic facts.
You don’t get marketing and how corporations work. I swear you give off some of the biggest bootlicking vibes I have ever seen. It is almost comical like you are a parody account. If so, thanks for the laugh.
I love how your only comparison is with big companies rather than small email providers or self hosting. You must live in a sad world to have so few options. I guess you better throw some money at Proton for “security”.
Then when I pointed out they needlessly store your meta data credit information you could give a shit. That is how I know you are not a privacy respecting person and just acting like a corporate hack.
You have failed to disprove my points in any meaningful way. You ignored evidence that Proton has poor privacy practices because you like to carry water for them I guess. I really don’t know. But pretending people don’t have legitimate reasons to dislike the company is pretty ignorant.
I don’t need to provide evidence
You do lol. Otherwise you’re just yapping.
you can’t even accept basic facts.
I don’t think you know what a fact is.
You have failed to disprove my points in any meaningful way.
You’ve failed to prove your points in any meaningful way. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence and all that.
You ignored evidence that Proton has poor privacy practices
The evidence you failed to provide because in your own words, you “don’t have to”? Lol. Lmao even.
love how your only comparison is with big companies rather than small email providers or self hosting.
Oh no I compared small email providers. They have all the same limitations as ProtonMail will have. As for selfhosting, you don’t even understand the first thing about email, privacy, or OpSec. Selfhosting is entirely out of the question for someone like you.
But pretending people don’t have legitimate reasons to dislike the company is pretty ignorant.
I’m still waiting for a legitimate reason. I ask with an open mind every time I see comments like this but the answer is always the same, technological illiteracy and “bad vibes”, your comment included.
Speaking of funny, you read my comment saying how the bots complaining about privacy-forward services like Proton are always a result of ignorance and not understanding how technology or privacy work, and you were like “Hey that’s me, now’s my time to shine” lol
Your deny that Proton uses privacy as a selling feature and you want me to prove it does otherwise I am yapping? Do you know how impossibly dumb you sound.
My point that I think they have shitty marketing practices? You have not even addressed this nor moved the needle in how I see their shitty business practices. My argument is not what you are addressing at all. That is okay, like I said you act like a parody. It is actually funny to see how hard you pander for a corporation. You must REALLY like Proton, lol.
What is coming out of proton? Honest question.
The recent controversies probably regarding Support of far Right social media
I’m also in the US and using Posteo. I’ve never had any issues (that I recall) with the address being rejected. Have you tried using a Posteo-provided alias with a different domain?
Consider getting your own domain name and pointing it at a provider, then when they enshittify you just switch provider and don’t have to change all your emails everywhere again.
This is how I use Proton. The setup process is really easy with clear instructions on what to configure in your DNS provider.
The only problem I have is that gmail rejects emails from my domain, I have to use proton’s address.If Gmail is rejecting your custom domain, you haven’t setup your SPF, or DKIM records etc for you custom domain that authorizes proton to be a valid email sender.
E.g when Gmai receives an email from a custom domain it will look up records to confirm the mail server sending it is valid.
Checkout https://proton.me/support/anti-spoofing-custom-domain or search proton SPF DKIM for guides.
You wouldnt have issues sending from a proton domain as they already have these in place for you.
I 100% did set them up from day one, and for several months every mail I sent from my domain to gmail got rejected, so I stopped trying.
I did a couple of tests today and it seems to be working now, so I guess they are doing more than just looking at the DNS records.
You need to build up reputation before you can beat spam filters. This happens all the time to new domains. Make sure to have Dmarc and Dkim configured.
How do I build up reputation? Should I keep trying to send from that domain even if it gets rejected?
I have all the DNS things configured as per Proton’s instructions.
Well, that sucks. Guess you must hate the people who reject you. What domain? yy?
Yes, but normally I don’t send a lot of emails anyway.
If I send to any @gmail.com address, it’s rejected, unless I change the From to my @proton.me
Huh I never thought about this. This is something I’ll have to do some research on, thanks.
Go for it. It’s surprisingly easy, relatively inexpensive and gives you way more control.
Well proven strategy, to the point where most providers explicitly allow it (might even be a decider). But don’t trust me (genuinely), Moar research! (please)).
BRILLIANT!!!
BRILLIANT
Well… it has advantages, for sure. Also drawbacks. A custom domain, that ties together all your separate email addresses.
There are let’s say 16 addresses on mysuperbestnumberonemail dot com. One used at a bank, one on a shopping site, 4 on a social media site, and one each at some utilities. Those are the ONLY uses of that domain for email in the whole world.
Where if it’s a domain millions of others use, then addresses are harder to pinpoint down to one person.
That might matter to someone. Or it might not. Depends on what you care about. Just something to be aware of. A custom domain is a huge fingerprinting signal.
I would advise mainly using a generic {hello,mail,<domain>}@domain.tld as that reduces the bits of information that can be gained about its use®, and consider WHOIS data. Most registrars hide that information from the public but it’s still subject to court orders - always check what legislation a given TLD falls under. There are also some registrars that are fully anonymous.
I must be out of the loop. What’s the issue with Proton?
I think they sponsored a right-wing French Youtuber, but they publicly apologised and said they didn’t know his political alignment.
Is that the whole thing? Genuinely asking.
That is the whole thing.
Seems…pretty thin tbh. I’m not ready to throw baby out with bathwater just yet.
Same. No idea what OP is talking about and I’m usually up to speed on stuff. Nobody has answered either so it’s probably an old article from a couple months ago about that cia inquiry or whatever (can’t recall). Idk what else. They always have a bad rep here, but it’s better than pretty much everything else, minus maybe a few one-offs.
There is absolutely no evidence for it. He went to lobby in DC, and apparently, some GOP folks had time for him but Dems didn’t. Could have been the opposite on different day based on several factors.
Then recently, the marketing firm they hired put a sponsorship on a far right guy’s video. They accepted full accountability for the mistake and said they would change procedures to get those being sponsored vetted appropriately.
Neither one of these are evidence of being MAGA. You can personally lobby in DC and find an individual of an opposite party who might have interest in your message. Just because Grainger played a commercial during satanic music videos doesn’t mean they are Dimmu Borgir fans. It just means people who listen to metal need tools too.
They guy might be a fascist dick for all I know. I’m just saying that the situations above do not indicate that it is the case. In fact, fascists typically never admit fault or accept accountability for anything. The only concern for me is that he was lobbying in the US at all, but that is the only way you can get your case heard sometimes if you need politicians to hear a different side of an argument.
I haven’t heard anything about it either, so am wondering if this is just good old fashioned muckraking.
@[email protected] proton keeps publicly dog whistling fascists/maga and – hopefully – by accident.
I thought it was the X posts from 2023 or 2024 supporting Drumph or the GOP.
Edit: It was mostly misunderstanding, at least on the topic I thought it was about. I know their stance on privacy may be in question still.
Found a source https://theintercept.com/2025/01/28/proton-mail-andy-yen-trump-republicans/ And another: https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e
that’s how it started and it escalated to proton itself paying a french fascist to make a video a few days ago.
I was just reading their response to that. I skipped down to the part where they said their ad buys are sort of not their fault? lol
Edit: added link
I skipped down to the part where they said their ad buys are sort of not their fault? lol
don’t you just hate it when your money spends itself all on its own and w/o your control? lol
Most definitely
Found it
Removed by mod
Tuta is awesome. You can try their free tier for an unlimited time, so no need to rush it.
Ive been really considering Tuta as my next choice. Do you find it difficult or easy to use for your accounts like bills/finance/important?
I used tuta for a long time ans never had any issues. I recently switched only because I wanted to be able to send emails from my self hosted services ans they don’t support anything but they’re own clients. If that’s not a problem for you the tuta is a great option.
For me it works almost perfect. Once an alias with the @tuta.io Domain got denied, elsewise I am happy. Might depend on the TLD you choose.
I’ve also used Tuta. Just gonna point out that some shopping sites didn’t accept my Tuta email. I haven’t used it with financial stuff tho so can’t comment on that.
Proton’s a good alternative.
There’s some confused allegations of them being MAGA Facists. But it’s a combination of misunderstanding and misrepresentation.There’s some confused allegations of them being MAGA Facists. But it’s a combination of misunderstanding and misrepresentation.
funny how they’re the only ones in this space that keeps making this mistake
Is it funny?
By a sizeable margin they’re the largest and most popular in the space. At the same time, that makes them the biggest target and most watched.Someone even mentioned a possible smear campaign by Google. While there’s no evidence at all of that, they would be the most obvious target.
So it’s not really funny or odd in any way. It’s kind of obvious really.
tuta seems to avoid making this “mistake” and it too has a sizeable following as well as a full complement of privacy respecting services that can rival proton.
Oo intriguing last guy I asked about this never answered very good
They realy aren’t, and don’t.
Tuta doesn’t have even half the user base, or services.They aren’t bad at all. And I don’t doubt they’ll get there.
But they aren’t at all close yet.
I’d love input on this too. I went all in on Proton and it’s aging like milk.
it’s aging like milk.
Becoming cheese?
Just stick with proton. Email isn’t secure and it doesn’t matter what the company does.
I like and use Migadu.
Yea I’m happy at Migadu as well, it’s been 2 years since the switch, not a single hiccup.
Interesting, never heard of that before, I’ll check it out
Servers are not in Sweden I thought.
Been using fastmail for ~8 years now. No complaints
Proton, Tuta, Murena…
Mailbox.org lets you keep your own private key.
Mailbox.org lets you keep your own private key.
Every email provider lets you keep your own private key if you do encryption using the interoperable OpenPGP standard using software running on your own computer. Many email providers will recommend that you do exactly that, and will helpfully instruct you about how to do so (eg, the more reputable options in this thread such as migadu.com, mailbox.org, posteo.de, and even fastmail.com all have instructions for how to use some implementation of pgp to encrypt your email).
Meanwhile any company selling non-standard “email encryption” (eg, proton and tuta) which is not compatible with pgp (or, in the corporate world, s/mime, which is also a standard…) is firmly in the snake oil business and should be distrusted and boycotted regardless of which shitty youtubers they’re sponsoring this week.
I hope more people pay attention to your response. Spot on.
I use disroot.org, it’s free and pretty good. Not as much inbox space as those that are either free or from corpos tho. Should be alright as long as you delete useless mails.
