I don’t want 1 hour shipping. I want charming niche shops and fabs where the employees are treated well and able to serve higher quality products, and repair things when they occasionally break.
Americans could afford to spend more on goods that are actually durable. And those who couldn’t would buy used items that actually are worthwhile because they were built to last.
No we didn’t. Wal-Mart showed up and undercut competition for years to force everyone else out of business, and then jacked up their prices, buy up the property where the competition was at and jack up the rent so they can’t come back.
That’s what they do now (and have done for the last 3 decades but Walmart is a lot older than that and you don’t get to be in that position by accident.
They were sourcing cheap Chinese goods in the early 80s.
And nothing materially changed between then and now.
I’d hate to break it to you, but that just isn’t true. Manufacturing capabilities have left the continent. People no longer have the relevant expertise to pass on through apprenticeships. We’d basically be starting from scratch, and with corporate hegemony built on cheap overseas labor to compete with.
That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be worth doing, but let’s not fool ourselves about the uphill battle that it would be, or the very real possibility that people would just keep using the cheap convenient corporations instead of supporting local fabs
You’re absolutely right. The word I chose was poor. What I meant was the underlying rules of the material world hasn’t changed. Atoms still act the same way, and all that. It was an exceptionally weird way to make an even weirder point, but yeah.
Alright well when you figure out the precise alloy of steel to optimize a spring for required specs, and the exact forging, quenching, and tempering processes and temperatures to use, as well as the specs for the equipment to extrude the wire and twist it into the right shape with enough precision to be commercially replicable, then we can all use your springs in all the things that we build. Now we just need someone else to build literally every other part.
The thing about a lot of modern technology, is that it’s made with other technology, which in turn requires still more technology. So when manufacturing capabilities disappear from a continent, it’s not so simple to just rebuild them. You need to rebuild the stuff that’s required to build them first.
And you also need technical knowledge, niche skill sets and tooling, and sources of often highly specific materials.
This isn’t meant to sound discouraging, but it’s best to understand the scale of the task from the outset.
Absolutely. And I don’t think it’s just an issue of individual choice. The market for most goods is flooded with cheap shit that is designed to break after a year or two, and that has driven up the cost of built-to-last goods, if they’re even available at all. It’s also killed the market for most used goods, even durable ones.
The problem, as always, is capitalism and capitalists, prioritizing “growth” (endlessly increasing profits quarter after quarter) instead of anything that would actually benefit society as a whole.
I really just want a choice in shopping that isn’t Amazon, Target, or Walmart.
Like, there are pretty much no mom and pop shores anymore. There’s an occasional “niche” bigbox, like Dicks or Walmart or Marshalls…but like, for real, there’s nothing left.
And then, you think you’re going direct to manufacturer, but nope, just a fancy skin on top of Amazon.
Or worse, twice so far, is order something from eBay and have it delivered in Amazon packaging on an Amazon truck.
All the ma and pa shops were forced into selling on Walmart and Amazon and eBay etc.
They are equally beat to shit by the platform pushing their prices down, the platform controlling the visibility of their products, and countless rules that if ever broken result in a permanent platform ban, ending the business.
I could’ve sworn I said BestBuy…which I would consider “niche” in that, I can’t think of a single other retailer in my area that competes directly as an electronics store.
There’s maybe an appliance shop nearby still? But I’m hundreds of miles away from even a Fry’s. No more CircuitCity or CompUSA or even Sears.
If I didn’t have a wholesale club nearby or a MicroCenter ~90 mins away, I wouldn’t have a clue where to buy a TV (for example), in person, besides WalMart, Target, or BestBuy.
Online, the first that comes to mind is those, and Amazon. Then if I start to think deep I’ll think maybe Newegg?
I don’t want 1 hour shipping. I want charming niche shops and fabs where the employees are treated well and able to serve higher quality products, and repair things when they occasionally break.
I get the sentiment, but the market as a whole said differently. I doubt Americans could afford that.
Americans could afford to spend more on goods that are actually durable. And those who couldn’t would buy used items that actually are worthwhile because they were built to last.
Maybe they could 50 years ago but they decided then that Walmart was the way to go.
Now all most of them can afford is Walmart
No we didn’t. Wal-Mart showed up and undercut competition for years to force everyone else out of business, and then jacked up their prices, buy up the property where the competition was at and jack up the rent so they can’t come back.
That’s what they do now (and have done for the last 3 decades but Walmart is a lot older than that and you don’t get to be in that position by accident.
They were sourcing cheap Chinese goods in the early 80s.
And nothing materially changed between then and now. It’s just as possible now as it was then. They just want you to think it isn’t.
I’d hate to break it to you, but that just isn’t true. Manufacturing capabilities have left the continent. People no longer have the relevant expertise to pass on through apprenticeships. We’d basically be starting from scratch, and with corporate hegemony built on cheap overseas labor to compete with.
That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be worth doing, but let’s not fool ourselves about the uphill battle that it would be, or the very real possibility that people would just keep using the cheap convenient corporations instead of supporting local fabs
You’re absolutely right. The word I chose was poor. What I meant was the underlying rules of the material world hasn’t changed. Atoms still act the same way, and all that. It was an exceptionally weird way to make an even weirder point, but yeah.
Alright well when you figure out the precise alloy of steel to optimize a spring for required specs, and the exact forging, quenching, and tempering processes and temperatures to use, as well as the specs for the equipment to extrude the wire and twist it into the right shape with enough precision to be commercially replicable, then we can all use your springs in all the things that we build. Now we just need someone else to build literally every other part.
The thing about a lot of modern technology, is that it’s made with other technology, which in turn requires still more technology. So when manufacturing capabilities disappear from a continent, it’s not so simple to just rebuild them. You need to rebuild the stuff that’s required to build them first.
And you also need technical knowledge, niche skill sets and tooling, and sources of often highly specific materials.
This isn’t meant to sound discouraging, but it’s best to understand the scale of the task from the outset.
Great, you’ve outlined the work that’s needed. To quote a fave movie of mine: “‘It’s not possible’. ‘No, it’s necessary’.”
Okay
The rules absolutely have changed. Distribution networks and data transfer are completely different today than back then.
Your parents voted for convenience every day at the register and they got what they paid for.
And they’ll be dead soon.
Probably. Their decisions with healthcare weren’t much better.
Do you do this, or are you just telling other people what they should be doing?
I do it when I can, yes.
Good, i agree that’s how we should buy things.
But life and finances can get in the way.
Absolutely. And I don’t think it’s just an issue of individual choice. The market for most goods is flooded with cheap shit that is designed to break after a year or two, and that has driven up the cost of built-to-last goods, if they’re even available at all. It’s also killed the market for most used goods, even durable ones.
The problem, as always, is capitalism and capitalists, prioritizing “growth” (endlessly increasing profits quarter after quarter) instead of anything that would actually benefit society as a whole.
100% agreed
We could afford it but wouldn’t be able to purchase on a dime.
I don’t think it’s people can’t afford it, but you don’t even know if the expensive item is any better.
I have seen identical products on Amazon sold at quite different prices. The expensive one is just as shit but will cost you more.
Long warranties you could actually trust would probably help. But you need to build that trust too
Most people could afford it if it were universal. It’s only a luxury when it’s only partially implemented.
I really just want a choice in shopping that isn’t Amazon, Target, or Walmart.
Like, there are pretty much no mom and pop shores anymore. There’s an occasional “niche” bigbox, like Dicks or Walmart or Marshalls…but like, for real, there’s nothing left.
And then, you think you’re going direct to manufacturer, but nope, just a fancy skin on top of Amazon.
Or worse, twice so far, is order something from eBay and have it delivered in Amazon packaging on an Amazon truck.
All the ma and pa shops were forced into selling on Walmart and Amazon and eBay etc.
They are equally beat to shit by the platform pushing their prices down, the platform controlling the visibility of their products, and countless rules that if ever broken result in a permanent platform ban, ending the business.
Walmart is niche?? I feel like I must be misinterpreting. 😅
I could’ve sworn I said BestBuy…which I would consider “niche” in that, I can’t think of a single other retailer in my area that competes directly as an electronics store.
There’s maybe an appliance shop nearby still? But I’m hundreds of miles away from even a Fry’s. No more CircuitCity or CompUSA or even Sears.
If I didn’t have a wholesale club nearby or a MicroCenter ~90 mins away, I wouldn’t have a clue where to buy a TV (for example), in person, besides WalMart, Target, or BestBuy.
Online, the first that comes to mind is those, and Amazon. Then if I start to think deep I’ll think maybe Newegg?
Fry’s as in fry’s electronics? Didn’t they go bankrupt because one of the owners was embezzling?
they were already crumbling in 2019 and covid killed them, that’s the official story, anyway
Out of curiosity, where do you live? I’ve not shopped at any of these sources in at least a decade.
So, like, the 50’s?