(LONG RANT)-A public service announcement. I know it might be obvious since I am posting in Privacy. Most of you might know this already. But I have to rant. Just in case if this helps anybody. You can test this for yourself. Click on any, usually political posts, you will see nonstop arguing, then you will start getting more and more posts like that. Same thing with TikTok and Reddit for sure. The sites want you to engage more so you stay on there. Especially now in these crazy political times. I have grown very disgusted with this and have deleted every app I can think of that does it. It is also very bad for your mental health. Now, who knows what data they are trying to get from those sites too. And some sites require your phone number or some kind of stupid verification process. This will get worse, you might have to add your ID just to enter in more websites online eventually. It is happening already with age restricted adult sites and with Discord. But honestly, you should already be watching what your kids are doing anyway. There will always be parental control tools. Now, the social media apps sure don’t help your child’s mental health either. They could be talking to anybody on them, a very disturbing thought. With them also posting photos and videos. I would never let my child do that on any website. Too many creeps out there. Obviously, when they are an adult that is a different story. But, children being on sites like these is very harmful to their minds. Even kids apps, they can click on AI slop that might say the ABC’s wrong or something like that. They have to be watched when you give them some random iPad. This whole rant might sound nuts, but I had to say it.
I realized this back during COVID. I had always known FB and their parent Meta were shit companies, but they were pushing engagement algorithms that lead to death threats because I would say innocuous things like stay safe and use a mask if you need to.
After my third interaction with someone in my past who had been radicalized by their garbage propaganda I said enough was enough and deleted my account.
My family still uses it and I still warn them not to, but I will never use their service for anything personal again.
Family, usually older people have no idea what is going on. They think the ai video slop is real. Also, the slop will get worse and very hard to distinguish between real ones. Then they try to add photos of you or your kid on Facebook.
I hate when people post pictures of their kids now. It is so cringe knowing that AI is capturing their faces and building profiles on them.
I agree with you completely. Somebody told me about schools too, and I didn’t even realize that their faces are all on the surveillance there. But, I don’t know how far that goes on the ai side. It is good that there is security in the schools so it is a double edge sword thing.
To be honest, I came here to get away from the toxicity of algorithm driven social media, reddit etc., but I find myself as angered here as anywhere else. While the algorithms play their role in generating anger, I’m finding more and more that people are as much of the problem as anything else.
Yes it’s great that I can tailor my feed to exactly what I want, and that works fine, but it seems they are riddled with disgruntled, pissed off, angry, paranoid people that don’t seem to be happy with anything before them, and seem intent on annoying everyone around them.
It was a breath of fresh air at first. Subscribe to X, Y and Z, only receive updates on X, Y and Z, but it was quickly ruined by the people, not the algorithm.
It’s getting increasingly difficult to exist online now without this toxicity, and we can’t keep blaming the algorithms.
Anyway, maybe I was a bit naive about what to expect, but its disappointing. We are running out if enjoyable spaces to exist in online and thats a shame.
I’m not saying it’s 100% the fault of algorithms. Sure, they work because they prey on very real human nature.
But lemmy isn’t apart from the rest of the internet or the overculture. The “algorithm” (to torture the term) that guides the news cycles, manufactures bikeshedding style outrage over meaningless diversions like the colour of a government swimming pool, etc… that does seep into our timelines and conversions.
Like you and I are at slightly different perspectives on what an algorithm is and how much of it can be said to affect people against their will, and some people will see us as arguing for two “sides” of a political spectrum.
I believe in personal responsibility sure, but I also believe all this other stuff affects us, and that I can’t even totally blame people who might be more susceptible to it.
At a certain point I blame the companies that keep putting out those hooks they know are harmful knowing that someone will always bite (millions of people will “bite” to greater or lesser degrees).
At that scale I think the excuse of saying people have personal responsibility (not your words) gets diluted because we all have different innate capacities and weaknesses.
It can only be called predatory.
Who would have thought? Capitalism and billionaires have made a lot of people angry…
I completely agree with you but wouldn’t it be less impactful if we were less online? I think quality is a thing, yes, control your feed etc. But quantity is just as important, if not more. If you’re constantly online you will naturally be more exposed to this sort of toxicity.
Edit: what I mean is that we don’t have to be as radical and completely get rid of social media. We need to spend less time on it. And Lemmy is perfect for that. No infinite scrolling, curated feed…
Totally agree. I have been away from all social media for years, with the final two, LinkedIn and Reddit nuked last year. I spent a full year being as helpful as I possibly could on Reddit, in specific subs, went out of the way to help people etc., but fuck me the toxicity in that place was unreal.
I spend very little time on my phone now, with Voyager the only app I use that connects me to communities, i.e. this one, but its still hard to get away from the heavy stuff. I don’t know where people have the time and energy to be so obstructive and challenging. If they put a fraction of that energy into helping people, it would change the world!
Being on the phone less has been great, but its just a pity that the only place I do go is a bit of a challenge at times. There’s so many good people here, its hard for them to keep their heads above the surface at times.
Maybe I need to curate even further!
I get it, sometimes it’s overwhelming. No matter how much we curate we’ll always encounter the toxicity. There’s no way to 100% avoid it… Heck even in real life you’ll come across this type of people. At the end of the day it’s a matter of how much we are willing to deal with it. Maybe ignore them? I don’t know… I was always told to not feed the trolls so I try to apply this rule everywhere.
I personally still use other types of social media, including Reddit for example, and the difference with here is night and day.
Honestly I’m jealous of you, I can’t bring myself to quit them. I always end up re creating an account and my screen time is shameful…
Unfortunately unless it’s the algorithm itself publishing the toxicity (which it isn’t), getting rid of the algorithm will not help much.
A few years ago I was friends with a cohort of soon-to-be Psychologists, and it was a well known fact that your options for easy employment* were either to get a job as a therapist for a major health corp and make little money and have to deal with the terrible admin, or make 2-3x working for a tech company but having to incur the karmic debt of trying to give Jolly West and James Mitchell a run for their money in the Lawful Evil competition.
*Private practice, teaching, and/or research have their own hurdles that are typically too high a barrier for entry for new grads
The problem here is the same but without the algorithm. The most active groups are political and news related. The posts that rise are all going to be political and pushed upward by the communities.
Those communities themselves are made up already extreme elements in one way or another that either got kicked off other algorithm managed communities or left those communities themselves.
And that says nothing of the gamifying of the whole online culture. People chase upvotes, the last comment, and just ‘winning’ discussion instead of teaching and talking. I’m no better. I try to be, but the impulse is pavolvian and takes constant effort to fight.
Social media has become this terrible mix of the casino, the strip club, and the opium den.
It hits all the worst parts of our brain and makes us weaker as a people.
It sucks.
What I do is:
- Don’t click on or share fascist or demotivating content, promoting or naming them in any way.
- Whenever you see a fellow comrade using their stuff - and you know they’d reject fascism -, privately inform them to use different content.
- Share more centrist and left-wing stuff with everyone. Not just politics, also just relaxing stuff.
- With those inclined to fascism, share only non-polarising, boring content, and don’t share their shit. Make them feel welcomed.
- Block fascists from reacting on you, but don’t block them from seeing your content. After all, exposure is key to deradicalisation and striving for the wellbeing of all.
- Don’t use Big Tech wherever possible. Use anti-authoritarian, left-wing, people-owned media. Only use big tech to get people off from there.
- Vouch for the good people to join trade unions, strike and protest, to join a left party, participate in direct and mutual aid, and those willing enough, to train to be able to defend.
- Don’t share real names with each other. Use an anonymously paid VPN, cover yourself and your tracks.
- And at the end of day, be kind for yourself - have some self-care. :3
I’m beginning to think our entire society is foundationally evil and uses us for something that isn’t our true nature.
It’s pedantic, but I wouldn’t blame society as a whole but the few psychos at the top of the pyramid (e.g. tech billionaires, corrupt politicians, etc)
Most of society (+99%) just wants to have their needs met, and when given the proper support are good people. The elite bastards spew so much propaganda and fund things against our interests that a lot of people can’t be their best selves.
But… Exactly… Why do people still fund in.
It’s Stockholm syndrome.
In their defence they were born into it, and their parents and all their peers do too.
Most people aren’t exposed to the content of people who “got out” because it doesn’t show up on commercial platforms or get discussed at company barbeques.
Social network algorithms doesn’t care if you like or not the content itself, what matters the most to them is how long your screen stays parked on a post.
Maybe you’re watching something you think it’s terrible, and then you enter comments to see how people are reacting. It might be making you furious, but that makes it, mathematically, a successful post that grabbed your attention and therefore the algorithm will throw more of that shit at you, because it wants your attention.
It is evil because it ignores human nature and it doesn’t measure how you feel about it. It rewards highly controversial topics because it knows these posts grab people’s attention one way or another.
It does make wonder if we would be better off now if the silicon valley monetizers had just gone with a subscription model.
Hell even a donation model works, as we see from countless FOSS projects.
I think both things are true. The algorithms heavily push enraging content, b/c that is the best way to make people engage. And nothing is more enraging than extreme polarization. The is having a really bad impact on our societies. Mine is suffering really bad. Lots of others are on this path too.
This quote is from a FB data scientist and manager at FB!
Frances Haugen: When we live in an information environment that is full of angry, hateful, polarizing content it erodes our civic trust, it erodes our faith in each other, it erodes our ability to want to care for each other, the version of Facebook that exists today is tearing our societies apart and causing ethnic violence around the world. Its own research is showing that content that is hateful, that is divisive, that is polarizing, it’s easier to inspire people to anger than it is to other emotions.
But also true, that it kinda happens even without algorithms. There’s a number, I forgot the name of it. It’s relatd to how many ppl we interact with in our lives. Before the internet, it was always like a couple hundred tops. With some exceptions, like kings, but for most ppl it was true. Social media changed this number. A person can go to FB and post enraging content that 500M people will see. That’s new, overnight by evolutionary standards.
A couple of years ago fb was bugging me with influencers. And a particular type, don’t remember what but I started blocking it, reporting, telling the algorithm in every way I didn’t want this.
They started pushing it only more and more.
Fuck em.
