Yes, you’re right, I was being unfair to therapists there; nobody offers money back guarantees for services.
That said, I find it kind of repulsive how therapist imply you WILL get better if you just put in the time (ie, give them a lot of money). I’ve seen plenty of therapists, I’ve NEVER had a therapist terminate me because I wasn’t getting better, even though I never got better with any therapist no matter how long I´d seen them. It seems most therapist will happily cash your checks in perpetuity unless you become a problem (suicidal), in which case many therapists will find a way to drop you like a hot potato.
But if you actually do care about research instead of soaking clients for money, there was a paper that showed that therapy usually starts working after a relatively short time period (maybe 2 months?) [edit: if its going to work at all], so I’d counsel people to stop seeing a therapist if they’re not seeing any benefit from it–a piece of advice nobody you are paying for advice is likely to give you and at least try a different therapist if not a different approach entirely.
Anyway, my anecdotal or lived experience (depending on if you want to devalue it or value it) is that I only got better when I disassociated myself from the mental health care system. The mental health system CAN do an amazing amount of harm, even unintentionally, and I don’t see a lot of therapist even aware of the possibility.
I find it kind of repulsive how therapist imply you WILL get better if you just put in the time
Like literally anything else in life? Yes. put in the time, get results.
Are there exceptions? Yes. medical conditions can make you not see gains in the gym, learning impediments can hinder progress in acedemics. Maybe it’s a bad teacher sometimes, but for the most part: put in time, see results.
I’ve NEVER had a therapist terminate me because I wasn’t getting better, even though I never got better with any therapist no matter how long I´d seen them.
Okay. That’s personal responsibility too. How many trainers terminate because you aren’t getting gains fast enough? How many teachers stop tutoring you and say you’re hopleless?
You can call it perverse incentive, but at the end of the day you gotta speak up for yourself and figure out what works best for you. Sure, if you really have 10 sessions talking to a person and you feel no better than ranting to a friend, you probably need a different approach, But therapists aren’t some magical exception to capitalism.
That’s all I’m saying, yea. Therapists aren’t any different from any other professional you seek for improvement. But generally, in the wide spectrum of 100s of millions of people, professional guidance improves you.
Biggest sin of social media is people further misunderstanding statistics and acting like an individual failure is a societal letdown. Sometimes you just have a shit teacher. doesn’t mean all teachers are shit.
I guess there’s a certain question of autonomy. There’s a tension between, “I need help running my life” and “I know when something isn’t helpful and can walk away.” There are ways in which therapy can disempower you: it can teach you to ignore your instincts, paper over your concerns… there is a real risk that someone who just can´t handle anything about their life will be trapped in an unhelpful (or openly abusive) relationship for years, so I’m really hesitant to recommend it to people blindly with no caveats.
There are ways in which therapy can disempower you: it can teach you to ignore your instincts, paper over your concerns
Any therapist telling you to “ignore your instincts” without diagnosing you with a relevant condition (e.g. PTSD, OCD) isn’t worth their salt. And not all therapists are licensed to diagnose you, so you’d need to be referred to a potentially different professional.
It’s like any other professional. You try stuff they suggest, and sometimes it doesn’t work out or you simply want 2nd opinion on a matter. It’s not perfect, but generally it helps.
so I’m really hesitant to recommend it to people blindly with no caveats.
Worst case, they waste a few hundred dollars and learn its not for them. I’ve wasted more money with worse things. I think the risk of getting “addicted to therapy” is much smaller than gambling or drugs.
Therapists do not just make you feel OK with everything. They teach you skills, mental resiliency, many things. I feel you have a very warped view of what therapy actually is.
Yes therapists are like shoes. Sometimes you need to try a few, and I can see why most therapists don’t say this (Because there are some bobo shoes) but they really ought to.
You absolutely 100% do not need a full year, agreed. The therapists should being a form of therapy such as EMDR, or being teaching skills very quickly after your initial appointment.
If all they ask is ‘How is your day’ with no plan to graduate you, or moved to a lower contact situation - they probably aren’t very good therapists
Ok, we agree mostly then. I think I just want people to go in with their eyes open and maintain their autonomy in therapy–be able to say “this isn´t working” and move on if necessary, to another therapy or another way to deal with their problem entirely.
There’s just a sheer passivity that seems to be implied in these conversation, like “just go to ANY therapist and let them fix you” which I really don’t want to leave unaddressed; glad that’s not what you’re saying.
Edit: Also, maybe some people do need a full year or even more! My point is only that you should be seeing regular and steady improvement, or at least motion. The idea that you can just hammer yourself with therapy sessions for a long enough time to get healed is wrong.
Find a nutritionist who will guarantee results after 12 months or your money back.
I’ll wait
Find a physical therapist who will guarantee results after 12 months or your money back.
I’ll wait
Find any professional who will guarantee results after 12 months or your money back when the issue comes down to personal responsibility
I’ll wait
You don’t show up, say your week was fine, you don’t believe in therapy, you have nothing to talk about, go home and magically get better.
Yes, you’re right, I was being unfair to therapists there; nobody offers money back guarantees for services.
That said, I find it kind of repulsive how therapist imply you WILL get better if you just put in the time (ie, give them a lot of money). I’ve seen plenty of therapists, I’ve NEVER had a therapist terminate me because I wasn’t getting better, even though I never got better with any therapist no matter how long I´d seen them. It seems most therapist will happily cash your checks in perpetuity unless you become a problem (suicidal), in which case many therapists will find a way to drop you like a hot potato.
But if you actually do care about research instead of soaking clients for money, there was a paper that showed that therapy usually starts working after a relatively short time period (maybe 2 months?) [edit: if its going to work at all], so I’d counsel people to stop seeing a therapist if they’re not seeing any benefit from it–a piece of advice nobody you are paying for advice is likely to give you and at least try a different therapist if not a different approach entirely.
Anyway, my anecdotal or lived experience (depending on if you want to devalue it or value it) is that I only got better when I disassociated myself from the mental health care system. The mental health system CAN do an amazing amount of harm, even unintentionally, and I don’t see a lot of therapist even aware of the possibility.
Like literally anything else in life? Yes. put in the time, get results.
Are there exceptions? Yes. medical conditions can make you not see gains in the gym, learning impediments can hinder progress in acedemics. Maybe it’s a bad teacher sometimes, but for the most part: put in time, see results.
Okay. That’s personal responsibility too. How many trainers terminate because you aren’t getting gains fast enough? How many teachers stop tutoring you and say you’re hopleless?
You can call it perverse incentive, but at the end of the day you gotta speak up for yourself and figure out what works best for you. Sure, if you really have 10 sessions talking to a person and you feel no better than ranting to a friend, you probably need a different approach, But therapists aren’t some magical exception to capitalism.
If you put in time and effort, everything is possible, except sometimes its not and you have to know the difference. Thank you. Very insightful.
That’s all I’m saying, yea. Therapists aren’t any different from any other professional you seek for improvement. But generally, in the wide spectrum of 100s of millions of people, professional guidance improves you.
Biggest sin of social media is people further misunderstanding statistics and acting like an individual failure is a societal letdown. Sometimes you just have a shit teacher. doesn’t mean all teachers are shit.
I guess there’s a certain question of autonomy. There’s a tension between, “I need help running my life” and “I know when something isn’t helpful and can walk away.” There are ways in which therapy can disempower you: it can teach you to ignore your instincts, paper over your concerns… there is a real risk that someone who just can´t handle anything about their life will be trapped in an unhelpful (or openly abusive) relationship for years, so I’m really hesitant to recommend it to people blindly with no caveats.
Any therapist telling you to “ignore your instincts” without diagnosing you with a relevant condition (e.g. PTSD, OCD) isn’t worth their salt. And not all therapists are licensed to diagnose you, so you’d need to be referred to a potentially different professional.
It’s like any other professional. You try stuff they suggest, and sometimes it doesn’t work out or you simply want 2nd opinion on a matter. It’s not perfect, but generally it helps.
Worst case, they waste a few hundred dollars and learn its not for them. I’ve wasted more money with worse things. I think the risk of getting “addicted to therapy” is much smaller than gambling or drugs.
What?
Therapists do not just make you feel OK with everything. They teach you skills, mental resiliency, many things. I feel you have a very warped view of what therapy actually is.
Can you directly quote what you are referring to? I don’t find what you’re replying to.
Yes therapists are like shoes. Sometimes you need to try a few, and I can see why most therapists don’t say this (Because there are some bobo shoes) but they really ought to.
You absolutely 100% do not need a full year, agreed. The therapists should being a form of therapy such as EMDR, or being teaching skills very quickly after your initial appointment.
If all they ask is ‘How is your day’ with no plan to graduate you, or moved to a lower contact situation - they probably aren’t very good therapists
Ok, we agree mostly then. I think I just want people to go in with their eyes open and maintain their autonomy in therapy–be able to say “this isn´t working” and move on if necessary, to another therapy or another way to deal with their problem entirely.
There’s just a sheer passivity that seems to be implied in these conversation, like “just go to ANY therapist and let them fix you” which I really don’t want to leave unaddressed; glad that’s not what you’re saying.
Edit: Also, maybe some people do need a full year or even more! My point is only that you should be seeing regular and steady improvement, or at least motion. The idea that you can just hammer yourself with therapy sessions for a long enough time to get healed is wrong.