It’s a movie starring his nephew in the lead role, approved by his estate, and by all accounts it just feels like an attempt to whitewash him. This is a man who was accused of being a serial child molester, settled with a family out of court for $25 million just to avoid a trial (Chandler), and openly admitted he slept in the same bed as kids while he was an adult (Bashir interview), among other things. I don’t really see what there is to debate.

Anything pointing this out gets backlash on movie-related subreddits, which I find wild. It makes me wonder, if Epstein could sing and dance, would he have gotten a biopic too? Would people be defending him like this?

  • FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca
    161·
    3 days ago

    I’m not seeing this movie because I’m not sure whether he was a child molester or not. There are rumours now that he actually protected kids from Epstein but I can’t decide what to believe.

    • Andy@slrpnk.net
      156·
      3 days ago

      I do believe he molested children, although I think the reason we have trouble accepting it is that I think there are a bunch of types of molestation, and we as a culture have a poor understanding of what these are, and so we struggle to recognize them.

      Epstein, for instance, sought the youngest possible post-pubescent girls in order to get off on taking their innocence.

      Jackson, imo, sought out intimate friendships with prepubescent children for companionship, and those unsupervised interactions included nudity and touching of an inappropriate nature.

      Both are child abuse. But they look different. Jackson got away with it (and still does, in a sense) because we don’t understand his motivations the way we can for Epstein, so we can’t recognize what happened.

      • Ninpuukamui@lemmy.world
        101·
        2 days ago

        those unsupervised interactions included nudity and touching of an inappropriate nature.

        This is unproven, right?

        • Andy@slrpnk.net
          6·
          2 days ago

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Neverland

          Safechuck allege that Jackson sexually abused them when they were children–Safechuck from 1988 to 1992 and Robson from 1990 to 1996. They give graphic descriptions of Jackson’s alleged sex acts, including masturbation, oral sex and anal sex, which they say took place at his home, Neverland Ranch, and other locations.

          Robson and Safechuck claim that Jackson said these acts were “romantic,” and that they did not realize they were inappropriate until adulthood.

            • Andy@slrpnk.net
              3·
              2 days ago

              I’m curious what people make of the broader allegations of a history of child endangerment and irresponsible behavior with kids beyond the lurid sexual accusations.

              For instance, do you consider the claims that he held his new born over the railing of a balcony credible? Is that part of a broader rumor mill? What do you make of that?

              • Ninpuukamui@lemmy.world
                11·
                2 days ago

                I saw it in the news when it happened, so I know it’s true. I think he was just being playful. I do not condone it, I’m explaining his askew point of view.

          • Andy@slrpnk.net
            4·
            2 days ago

            Do you know the “no true Scotsman” fallacy? Because I regret to inform you that I believe you’re falling prey to it.

              • Andy@slrpnk.net
                3·
                2 days ago

                I’m saying that considering the availability of credible accusors, I think you’re defining who counts as a credible accusors in a selective way to maintain your prior assumptions.

                I’m not saying this to be snide or disrespectful. I’m just asking if it’s possible you’re letting a bias go unnoticed.