Its not cheaper if it can’t replace my car, it’s much much more expensive.
I already have a fleet of bikes for exercise and recreation. I don’t actually use them for transportation because its unsafe and takes 10x longer to do things and I don’t want them to get stolen.
I already have a very efficient electric sedan so my transport emissions are very minimal.
You might not be able to use an e-bike for practical reasons like time/distance, but if theft is your only concern, get a folding bike you can bring inside. I like my Ride1up Portola for commutes and it goes under my desk when I get to work. At home it lives in the garage or inside the house during the winter.
E-bikes aren’t necessarily for every person in every use case, but they’re great in a lot of situations.
I don’t have an office door. Regardless, walking a short distance to an arbitrary store front door from a parking lot is far less stressful than riding a bike there from my front door in the 100+F Texas heat and hoping I don’t literally die somewhere along the way.
Listen, I can form an argument either way, but I’m also not the one making such wildly unilateral statements as the OP.
Right, but why should you have to use a whole car instead of just a bike for some of the things your car can do? Why waste the gas when an e-bike can get you to where you need to be for pennies worth of electricity?
Thousands? A cheap e-bike or, God forbid, a non electric bike is far less expensive than any car.
Okay, so you mooch off of work’s electricity to charge your car. Good for you. I never said you had to use a bike to commute. Maybe just to pop down to a corner store. If you don’t live somewhere that has anything like that close by, then maybe quit bitching at those of us that choose to live close to society have more and better options for transportation than you do.
The idea isn’t to get rid of your car that you’re obviously angry that you had to spend a whole bunch of money on and are forced to sit in traffic every day with. The idea is, where possible, to eliminate the need for something as big as a car for whatever is possible.
Not trying to move goalpoasts, trying to provide options that might be cheaper for you, since you mentioned cost. Repeatedly.
A bike is not intended to be a redundant vehicle. It’s intended to replace a much larger, heavier, and less efficient vehicle for shorter trips. I’ve got an e-trike I use to make trips to the grocery store on occasion, when it’s just me and I don’t need the space. Gets me up and moving, saves gas, and doesn’t take that much longer, especially since I do all my shopping on the weekends. I’ll grab fast food on it, too, and it’s great for that because I can cut through neighborhoods and trails rather than have to deal with being tailgated all the time.
I shouldn’t have to use my car all the time. That’s the point. If you’re in a city, you shouldn’t have to use your car, either. Nobody should.
A bike is not intended to be a redundant vehicle. It’s intended to replace a much larger, heavier, and less efficient vehicle for shorter trips.
But…why?
Regardless of its intent, that’s what it is. Redundant. Because once again, it can’t do anything my car can’t. And once again, if it could replace my car, I’d be all in. But it can’t.
Gets me up and moving, saves gas, and doesn’t take that much longer
I ride bikes ~4 hours/week, recreationally so I already get my movement that way. But at present I’m very limited on where I can safely go. Most destinations don’t have a safe path, or are too far away, or require long detours. When I ride my bike I load it up on my car because there’s no way to get anywhere other than a literal highway without so much as a shoulder to ride on.
I shouldn’t have to use my car all the time. That’s the point. If you’re in a city, you shouldn’t have to use your car, either. Nobody should.
I agree. I shouldn’t. It would be my preference to ditch the car. But it would add several hours to my daily commute, I would arrive at work wet as a fucking mop and stinking from the 100F+ weather (not to mention rain). And there’s a strong possibility I would literally die along the way. Or I guess I could get another job and take a pay or QoL cut. I literally cannot afford to move.
I have an electric sedan. I charge it at work. The only per-mile cost is tires, which are $1k every ~50k miles ($0.02/mi). And it definitely would not cover 25%.
Fair! Definitely makes your calculus different than most.
Though insurance and maintenance/repairs are other per-mile costs you are forgetting.
Depreciation is another consideration, but that depends on uf you you plan to sell or drive until failure, and if you want to wrap electric batteries and motors under depreciation or maintenance.
Though insurance and maintenance/repairs are other per-mile costs you are forgetting.
I’m not forgetting them. Insurance is not a per-mile cost. And as I explained in the comment you just replied to, I have no maintenance or repairs, other than tires.
The bikes I have cost far more to maintain and repair. My main bike I bought 4 years ago and have replaced virtually every component on it in that time. Both wheels, several sets of tires, 2 derailleurs, suspension rebuilt multiple times, multiple chains, cassette, brake pads, shifter cable/housing, grips, pedals, shoes, saddle, etc. etc. And its not even an ebike.
The fuck it isn’t! I mean, sure, technically it’s a cost per time period, but the cost per mile is just the cost per time period divided by the miles driven per time period. You can’t just go around pretending it doesn’t matter; that’s dishonest.
The bikes I have cost far more to maintain and repair.
Either you are way overpaying on bike maintenance, or you’re leaving car-related costs out.
Disagree. When it can replace my car, I’ll buy it. Until then its just unnecessary consumerism. Also it would be stolen in a heartbeat around here.
A car can’t replace the handful of flights I make, hence it can’t cover all of my transportation needs and I will be forced to only fly everywhere.
As it turns out, you can run multiple transportation options for multiple purposes just fine
Such an absolutely insane comparison. Can you take a flight to the grocery store?
No one said you can’t. But my current transportation options cover all of my needs, so why would I add another, other than luxury?
Just off the top of my head:
Its not cheaper if it can’t replace my car, it’s much much more expensive.
I already have a fleet of bikes for exercise and recreation. I don’t actually use them for transportation because its unsafe and takes 10x longer to do things and I don’t want them to get stolen.
I already have a very efficient electric sedan so my transport emissions are very minimal.
You might not be able to use an e-bike for practical reasons like time/distance, but if theft is your only concern, get a folding bike you can bring inside. I like my Ride1up Portola for commutes and it goes under my desk when I get to work. At home it lives in the garage or inside the house during the winter.
E-bikes aren’t necessarily for every person in every use case, but they’re great in a lot of situations.
Its not my only concern, it’s one of many. But the main one is that it can’t do anything my car can’t.
I cannot drag around a folding bike inside the store with me.
OP says they are, so that’s what I was arguing.
Fair enough. There are lots of things ebikes can do that cars can’t but it kinda sounds like you already had other reasons that made up your mind.
No, please, go on.
For one: You can’t ride your car straight from your house/apartment door to your office door, then fold it up under your desk to charge.
I don’t have an office door. Regardless, walking a short distance to an arbitrary store front door from a parking lot is far less stressful than riding a bike there from my front door in the 100+F Texas heat and hoping I don’t literally die somewhere along the way.
Listen, I can form an argument either way, but I’m also not the one making such wildly unilateral statements as the OP.
Cars can’t drive on the multi-use path, which means cars can’t get you through any decently-designed city as fast as a bike can.
Cars can’t take kids to/from school without waiting for-fucking-ever in line.
I don’t live in a decently-designed city.
I don’t have kids. And kids can walk. Or take the bus, ideally.
Right, but why should you have to use a whole car instead of just a bike for some of the things your car can do? Why waste the gas when an e-bike can get you to where you need to be for pennies worth of electricity?
Why should I have to spend thousands of dollars on a whole other vehicle to do something my car already does but worse?
I don’t use any gas and I charge my car at work so it doesn’t even cost a single penny.
Thousands? A cheap e-bike or, God forbid, a non electric bike is far less expensive than any car.
Okay, so you mooch off of work’s electricity to charge your car. Good for you. I never said you had to use a bike to commute. Maybe just to pop down to a corner store. If you don’t live somewhere that has anything like that close by, then maybe quit bitching at those of us that choose to live close to society have more and better options for transportation than you do.
The idea isn’t to get rid of your car that you’re obviously angry that you had to spend a whole bunch of money on and are forced to sit in traffic every day with. The idea is, where possible, to eliminate the need for something as big as a car for whatever is possible.
Is the most expensive bike you’ll ever own.
Moving the goalposts.
No, but the OP said I should. That’s what I was replying to.
…no one is “bitching at you”. No one suggested you shouldn’t do that. I don’t know where you got any of that from.
It is for me. I’m not spending thousands of dollars on a redundant vehicle.
I’m not and I don’t.
You’re arguing with a strawman here. All of the points you think I’m making are imaginary, made up in your head somehow.
Not trying to move goalpoasts, trying to provide options that might be cheaper for you, since you mentioned cost. Repeatedly.
A bike is not intended to be a redundant vehicle. It’s intended to replace a much larger, heavier, and less efficient vehicle for shorter trips. I’ve got an e-trike I use to make trips to the grocery store on occasion, when it’s just me and I don’t need the space. Gets me up and moving, saves gas, and doesn’t take that much longer, especially since I do all my shopping on the weekends. I’ll grab fast food on it, too, and it’s great for that because I can cut through neighborhoods and trails rather than have to deal with being tailgated all the time.
I shouldn’t have to use my car all the time. That’s the point. If you’re in a city, you shouldn’t have to use your car, either. Nobody should.
But…why?
Regardless of its intent, that’s what it is. Redundant. Because once again, it can’t do anything my car can’t. And once again, if it could replace my car, I’d be all in. But it can’t.
I ride bikes ~4 hours/week, recreationally so I already get my movement that way. But at present I’m very limited on where I can safely go. Most destinations don’t have a safe path, or are too far away, or require long detours. When I ride my bike I load it up on my car because there’s no way to get anywhere other than a literal highway without so much as a shoulder to ride on.
I agree. I shouldn’t. It would be my preference to ditch the car. But it would add several hours to my daily commute, I would arrive at work wet as a fucking mop and stinking from the 100F+ weather (not to mention rain). And there’s a strong possibility I would literally die along the way. Or I guess I could get another job and take a pay or QoL cut. I literally cannot afford to move.
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https://findtheright.bike/bike/longtail-ebike?car=own&replace=25
If you own a car and replace 25% of trips wih an ebike, you’re up $3,000 over 5 years.
I have an electric sedan. I charge it at work. The only per-mile cost is tires, which are $1k every ~50k miles ($0.02/mi). And it definitely would not cover 25%.
Fair! Definitely makes your calculus different than most.
Though insurance and maintenance/repairs are other per-mile costs you are forgetting.
Depreciation is another consideration, but that depends on uf you you plan to sell or drive until failure, and if you want to wrap electric batteries and motors under depreciation or maintenance.
I’m not forgetting them. Insurance is not a per-mile cost. And as I explained in the comment you just replied to, I have no maintenance or repairs, other than tires.
The bikes I have cost far more to maintain and repair. My main bike I bought 4 years ago and have replaced virtually every component on it in that time. Both wheels, several sets of tires, 2 derailleurs, suspension rebuilt multiple times, multiple chains, cassette, brake pads, shifter cable/housing, grips, pedals, shoes, saddle, etc. etc. And its not even an ebike.
The fuck it isn’t! I mean, sure, technically it’s a cost per time period, but the cost per mile is just the cost per time period divided by the miles driven per time period. You can’t just go around pretending it doesn’t matter; that’s dishonest.
Either you are way overpaying on bike maintenance, or you’re leaving car-related costs out.
…but it isn’t? And it doesn’t?
…huh?
Okay, well, you can just choose not to believe me, that’s your prerogative.